tinyfood: (postyng Ethycally. wythyn reason)
Entrapta, Princess of Dryl ([personal profile] tinyfood) wrote in [community profile] aefenglom2019-10-25 10:33 pm

(no subject)

Name: Entrapta
Date: oct 16th
Format: text

HELLO! I WANT TO COLLECT SOME DATA.

IF YOU HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT ETHICS, PLEASE ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS:

1] ARE THERE ACTIONS YOU CONSIDER UNACCEPTABLE REGARDLESS OF CONTEXT? IF SO, PLEASE PROVIDE EXAMPLES

2] ARE THERE SOME MITIGATING CONTEXTS THAT RENDER OTHERWISE UNACCEPTABLE ACTIONS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? IF SO, PLEASE PROVIDE EXAMPLES

3] IF A PERSON HAS PERFORMED AN UNACCEPTABLE ACTION, WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER AN APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT?

THANKS! 8)
faithlikeaseed: (blind - :|)

audio;

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-28 02:27 am (UTC)(link)
[Thinly amused,] While it's not unforgivable, using the yell setting on the watches has to be at least a small ethical transgression.

To your first question: Slavery, abuse, blood magic. Anything meant to deliberately degrade another's innocence or free will, [Dorchacht.] Controlling men's minds.

To the second question, I wouldn't see a situation where any of those are acceptable. There's mages back home who make the case blood magic might be necessary in self-defense--and here, I understand, it's treated as a typical practice, [he's doing a really good job of not sounding absolutely disgusted by that, good job, Myr.] But I'm not convinced it's worth the cost to your soul just to delay your death a space of time.

I think the others who've spoken have covered the range of things that might excuse murder, theft, lying, and so on--that whole gamut of evils we can justify in war or dire threat.

And as it concerns punishment--well, it ought to be matched to the crime and motive. And it should include some redress to the people harmed. A thief can restore what she stole; a murderer, if he's not executed, might serve the family of the one he's murdered. Lying's a harder one to punish, since trust's harder to put back when it's broken, which I s'pose, [and here his tone is ironic,] is why some places go for cutting out a liar's tongue. But that's both excessive and cruel.
firewalled: (To die)

text;

[personal profile] firewalled 2019-10-29 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
+1

[Rich doesn't feel the need to say anything more here. He just is very glad to know Myr has the same feelings as him. It makes him feel a little less crazy and a little more supported here.]
faithlikeaseed: (blind - knucklebite)

text;

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-29 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
+2 ?

[He doesn't get your modern customs, but nevertheless did he know, he'd be glad he's given Rich a little more hope.]
firewalled: (Feeling like a hero but I can't fly)

text;

[personal profile] firewalled 2019-10-30 11:04 pm (UTC)(link)
just means i agree w u
dont worry 2 much about it

bloodwit: (literally)

Re: audio;

[personal profile] bloodwit 2019-10-29 07:32 pm (UTC)(link)
[ subtle -1, but he's not about to vocalize that. ]

Is that what this "blood magic" is, back in your world? Paying some of your blood, some of your soul, and something magical happens?
faithlikeaseed: (blind - unamused)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-29 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
[fight him irl!!!]

Your blood or--more often--another's. Maleficarum, blood mages, use blood to fuel their to spells in place of mana--to summon demons, make thralls of men, and even rend the Veil. I've heard even ordinary spells might be made stronger using blood--and since the blood mage isn't drawing from the Fade, she can cast when otherwise cut off from it.

[listen to him sounding so academic and objective about it!

while simultaneously twisting a weed to death with his bare hands. at least that's mostly not audible.
]
bloodwit: (claudia play despacito)

[personal profile] bloodwit 2019-10-29 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
[ ah, hm. ]

I have heard you mention "the Fade," before, but "the Veil" is new to hear. Explain both, please.
faithlikeaseed: (any - magic)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-29 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
[safer topic, one myr warms up to rapidly as he talks.]

The Fade's our realm of dreams, back on Thedas. It's the wellspring the Maker drew on to create the waking world and all its inhabitants. Mages are conduits for its power--we can reach into it and use the magic it grants to reshape the waking world to match our imagination and will.

The Maker placed the Veil between the two realms to keep them separated--to keep spirits and demons from entering our world, and to keep us from walking the Fade in anything but our dreams.

Despite the name and the--metaphors we're accustomed to use for it, the Veil's not a tangible thing like a barrier. It's present everywhere at once and there aren't really sides to it--but when it grows weak or tears, the Fade's suddenly present in a way it ordinarily isn't and things can cross between worlds.
bloodwit: (could also be known)

[personal profile] bloodwit 2019-10-29 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
[ no worries....... viren's happy to wrap this back around into unpleasantness ]

[... he does recall, assuming the fade to be something akin to primal magic. it does sound -- similar, if only because it seems to be considered to be a more "natural," more appropriate source of magic, thus far. ]

So, from how I am understanding it...

The mage sacrifices blood, perhaps some of their soul. This enables them to cast a spell whenever they like, as they do not have to draw from the Fade. The spells they cast can be more powerful, capable of greater—or perhaps, just dissimilar—feats from ordinary magic. And, they do not necessarily have to possess malevolent intent, but it can simply be out of necessity.

[ alas -- he has to recognize there are, quite very likely, gaps in that. ]

Is that correct, so far?
Edited (a word) 2019-10-29 20:37 (UTC)
faithlikeaseed: (blind - concern)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-29 08:46 pm (UTC)(link)
[not like myr wasn't expecting it to get back to blood magic, he was just...hopeful.

his enthusiasm ebbs some now that they're back in unpleasant territory.
]

Ah--almost. The risk to the soul's a purely theological one--the Maker's curse rests on blood mages for abusing His gift of magic. No one's yet proven souls can be a source of magic--which is just as well.

[you start using souls for magic and next thing you know you blow up your entire empire on accident trying to squash a rebellion whoops wrong canon.]

You're spot on with the rest of it, messere. Though I'll say while not all mages who use it do so for malevolent ends, it rarely comes out any better than if they had--given the risks of possession and thinning the Veil.
bloodwit: (though i feel the endless)

[personal profile] bloodwit 2019-10-29 09:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I see...

[ not unreluctantly; myr's explained it objectively well enough (or so viren must assume). he's curious as to what the maker's curse entails - but, somehow, he thinks he's heard enough. possession and a thinning veil is a foreign concept; that's a more blatant dissimilarity between blood magic and dark magic.

it does temper his initial reaction to all of this.
]

The use of Witch blood for spells here — but for the fact that it involves use of some organic matter, you would consider it even comparable?
faithlikeaseed: (blind - :|)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-29 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)
[there is silence from myr's end as he thinks about that one, setting aside his instinctive disgust to actually compare the two practices--thedas' blood magic, and talam's.

finally, slowly,
]

I was raised to detest the use of blood in magic, both for reasons of the Chantry's proscription on it and the historical evils it's been used to inflict. [and, also, it's just plain lazy, as vandelin was fond of opining.] I recognize neither of those are in effect here, and that Talam's Witches routinely use their own blood to enhance their magic. That it isn't specific to the kinds of magic used to control and warp minds, though it might enhance those, too.

I think--as the incident of the mists has shown us--there's a real risk in making ordinary the use of blood, and other parts of thinking beings, in magic. I can't get around my feeling that it inclines the unscrupulous to take the most vulnerable among us as simply a source of components, and for that reason it should be more heavily restricted than it is.

If it were mine to dictate, and not the Coven's or the Parliament's, I'd ban the practice entirely. But I recognize that's on the strength of a feeling and not a universal principle--for if magic works so differently here from how it does on Thedas, then surely the rules about its use and abuse must also.

So, to conclude: No. They're clearly not comparable, but my disgust at the practice remains what it is.
Edited (subject-verb agreement: what are it?) 2019-10-29 21:47 (UTC)
bloodwit: (from birth we've been)

[personal profile] bloodwit 2019-10-30 12:24 am (UTC)(link)
[ viren has to do some mental gymnastics to explain away that one: for the unscrupulous to estimate the vulnerable as nothing more than a component. ... but when you're a kingdom at war, and you're fighting an enemy that would like nothing more than for an excuse for destruction of your kind,

well, viren thinks. if you must take a life, you may as well utilize their parts. or take a life to utilize their parts, as it also so happens. —ultimately, his beloved pragmatism would come first.
]

Restrict it too much, and you would restrict progress.

[ stated fairly neutrally; he does understand himself, potentially as a monster, to be on the other side of the equation here. ]

But, I would hope, for your sake — that you may overcome that bias someday.
faithlikeaseed: (blind - why is the world like this)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-10-30 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
True progress, or the illusion of progress chased for its own sake?

[myr is, ultimately, an idealist, but one who can recognize he's not living in the world of his beloved ideal. pragmatism has its place, but sheer utility isn't and shouldn't be the only factor in play when considering a solution.

then, honestly curious:
]

Why d'you hope that, messere?
bloodwit: (Default)

[personal profile] bloodwit 2019-10-30 01:22 am (UTC)(link)
True progress.

[ of course that would be the answer. ]

[ and truth be told, it had been something of a platitude, so now he has to bullshit something on the spot, but -- ]

Because, as you recognized, your feelings are... [ he almost said 'blinding,' he almost did. ] ... impairing your view of it. [ err, yes. ] Your disgust causes you discomfort, yes? Even if they are different practices.

Perhaps you would argue with me, that letting go of that feeling would mean losing some sense of morality — I think, even if not completely, it would be more forward-thinking.

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faithlikeaseed: (blind - chatter)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-11-01 03:27 am (UTC)(link)
Justice is hollow if it's simply about retribution; except in the most dire cases, a punishment isn't just to get back at the offender--it's got to give her a way to repair things with her whole community, if she'd repent of what she's done.

[Oh boy more talking about Myr's favorite type of magic in the entire world.

As long as it's academic...
]

Ah--to that first, I'd in mind sexual offenses. [Which were mercifully never a part of life in Hasmal's Circle, but elsewhere...they'd heard too much about it.]

I'm not sure how much more I can say on blood magic--but I'm glad to answer anything else you might want to know on Thedas' magic generally. [A brief pause.] Was this you heard--from this Solas fellow people have mentioned?

[There's the smallest melancholy note in his voice.]
faithlikeaseed: (blind - chatter)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-11-02 03:50 am (UTC)(link)
[Damn. If only he'd been able to talk to the other mage...]

Creation magic was--is--my focus. Barriers, glyphs, speeding the growth of plants or strengthening my allies. Summoning bees, [with a tinge of amusement,] or other swarming, stinging creatures. Even pulling tangible things like grease from the Fade.

It's also the school of healing but I was never much good at that.
faithlikeaseed: cw for graphic eye injury further down the page (blind - chipmunk grin)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-11-02 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
[There's a grin in his voice.] We-ell, the easiest way to do it is just call whatever happens to be in the area, whether it's bees or wasps or ants or termites. If there's really nothing around that you can recruit, you can make something like bees out of the Fade, but they don't stick around long.

It's damned hard to create permanent new life, though; supposed to be impossible, but there's always stories about mages who've managed it, so...
Edited 2019-11-02 22:21 (UTC)
faithlikeaseed: (blind - :J)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-11-03 01:08 am (UTC)(link)
[+10 approval from Myrobalan.]

They're little bits of magic that could be bees if you didn't look at them too closely, and they certainly sting like 'em. The nastier versions will even move on to a new target if the one you sent 'em after stops moving.

[He's alarmingly enthusiastic about that.]
faithlikeaseed: cw for graphic eye injury further down the page (blind - chipmunk grin)

[personal profile] faithlikeaseed 2019-11-12 06:09 am (UTC)(link)
Like someone made only the bits of a bee good for flying and stinging and joined them together--a little needle with wings. You could go more elaborate, if you like, but that's a waste of mana for something that'll hardly last a minute.

And, oh--a little piece of the Fade, broken off in its own shape for a time. Doomed to dissolve back into it soon enough, but tangible to anyone while it's around.

[Then a longing sigh.] Don't I know it. I'd give a lot to be a Witch for a day--maybe I've just got to Bond one that wouldn't mind taking direction on research.

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